Curse

Nexx · Aug 18, 2005, 05:32 PM // 17:32

I'm a nublet and I need a good w/m sword build for PvP. I'm currently running a vanilla W/M build that uses "Judge's Insight".

The problem: how do the 1337 warriors get around the mana issue?

The reason I ask is "pure strike" and "savage slash" are really good in PvP yet they each cost 5 energy per use. Couple those two with Insight (10 energy) and some form of ensnaring skill (sprint ~ 5, hamstring ~ 10) and you got yourself a mana hungry warrior that I feel is almost impossible to use to its full potential.

Secondary questions:

To those that use hamstring, how do you get around the -10 energy per usage? Would sprint be a better alternative but even then, if a caster is running (most likely away from you), isn't that a good thing so why even equip an ensnaring skill?

This is my current vanilla build that I can't seem to find a slot for an ensnaring skill. Any advice? I'm tempted to replace savage slash...

Pure Strike
Savage Slash
Severy Artery
Gash
Galrath Slash
Final Thrust
Judge's Insight
Mend Aliment

Morganas · Aug 18, 2005, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Use axes for builds that require energy for secondary skills, they only use adrenaline.

To your second question, dismember and axe rake, it take a while to charge up but it cripples for a long time.

Also, disrupting chop > savage slash.

Nexx · Aug 18, 2005, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quick reply. =]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morganas

Use axes for builds that require energy for secondary skills, they only use adrenaline.

If I'm not mistaken, I think all secondary skills use energy but I guess the better question to ask is, how does one get around using a sword without using an axe? (Which also begs the question, why even use a sword in the first place when hammer and axe are just so much better, huh? :P)

Morganas, I'm sure you had good intentions to imply the usages of axe skills but I'm trying to be slightly different and actually try to build what everyone says can't be done: an effective sword warrior build...

[I've been using axe and hammer builds for quite some time now and by far those two are better by a long shot!]

Morganas · Aug 18, 2005, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Some builds use secondary classes to build energy, like a w/mo with balth's spirit or using bonetti's defense, or mesmer secondary "energy denial warriors" who use inspiration. Also, there are alot of ranger/warriors who use expertise with sword skills. These players have excess energy at their disposal, so swords are actually better than the alternative for pure damage. Most of these, except the ranger/warrior and war/mes, rely on getting attacked, so swords are not ideal for pvp.

If you're not a war/mes or r/war, you really should avoid swords in pvp.

If you're pure warrior, a mix of sword adrenaline skills with energy skills might also be effective.

Zeru · Aug 18, 2005, 06:00 PM // 18:00

You could try flourish.

Sword wars don't have any good elites unlike the other lines so you're basically stuck with the mediocre battle rage most of the time.

Also, make sure to use a zealous sword.

Nexx · Aug 18, 2005, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Not to say that I'm very experienced but enough to know that warriors are not generally targeted to fully use Balthazar's Spirit or Bonetti's Defense but I do see your point.

I've been reading a lot of opinions from a lot of people (who appear to know more about PvP than most of us) and I've noticed a undying debate over the effectiveness of strength and if it's even worth throwing points at. Anyways, for your r/war build, are you implying that expertise is better than strength for a sword usage build? I suppose it makes perfect sense to use expertise to minimize energy usage but doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of building a high-damage output machine if you can't spike damage with armor pentration?

Morganas, I've tried using a heavy sword adrenaline build I just can't get over the fact that condition owns warriors so bad. I also feel that I'm not doing enough damage with my sword unless I go into my secondary.

Shadowfox1125 · Aug 18, 2005, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Uh.. Gladiator's Armor?

What armor are you using now?

Nexx · Aug 18, 2005, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Plate.

I'll buy a gladiator set tonight and see if the +8 energy benefit will matter. My only worry is that it won't make a difference because the two mana pipes won't recharge my energy fast enough to re-use my sword skills. Kinda like blowing [all your money] early and not doing anything but wait for your [monthly paycheck to come in]. Besides, I've also noticed that in combat that I never have enough time to sit around and recharge my mana.

KuTeBaka · Aug 18, 2005, 07:10 PM // 19:10

flourish is a good sword attack that recharges lots of skills and gives you lots of energy too.

Racthoh · Aug 18, 2005, 08:31 PM // 20:31

I'd say use Rush over Sprint if you're having issues. Only 4 adrenaline and it lasts longer than Sprint.

Other than that, I can't think of a reason why you're having troubles with energy. Sure Hamstring requires 10 energy, but with a decent level in sword it should last enough to refill the energy. If you can't maintain it, just use Rush and not Hamstring. Harder to stop a stance than cure crippled anyway.

Tigris Of Gaul · Aug 18, 2005, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexx

Savage Slash
Severy Artery
Gash
Galrath Slash
Final Thrust
Judge's Insight
Bull's Strike
Sprint

Try that with a Zealous Sword. I really would advise using Strength of Honor over JI, but that gets you at no regen and I don't like that. Buffed axes and hammers benefit more from JI than swords, swords really do well with added damage.

Bast · Aug 18, 2005, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Tigris' build there should be possible, and I'd agree with using Strength of Honor instead, it lets you just attack instead of having to stop and cast (if you have the energy). A Zealous sword upgrade should be able to maintain those energy skills (Savage Slash, Bull's Strike, Sprint) without much problem. I messed around with a Warrior similar to that, but I ran Life Bond on the monk instead (same cost). I didn't have energy problems.

The key to it though is Zealous. Have two swords, cast your maintained enchant right away, switch to another sword to regen the energy (Zealous+maintained buff = no pips, but switching the Zealous out lets you regen with 1 pip), then switch to the Zealous when you regain the energy you lost. The delay before a round starts is usually long enough that you'll regen at least 7-8 of the 10 energy you spent.
---
If you're set on using Judge's Insight, seriously consider switching to axes instead. The axe line is primarily Adrenaline based, and the axe energy skills are far inferior to the Adrenaline ones anyway. This frees your energy up for interesting things like: running JI on yourself or maintaining 2 enchants (have to use no energy skills for this, see Rush). Supporting Frenzy+Sprint+a 5en attack skill is about the ragged edges of a Warrior's pips, but it can be done if you're careful and don't waste stance casts. I'm thinking the addition of Zealous would make it infinitely maintainable, and may be enough to handle JI if you don't take Frenzy.

So yeah, Zealous ftw.

Morganas · Aug 18, 2005, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexx

Not to say that I'm very experienced but enough to know that warriors are not generally targeted to fully use Balthazar's Spirit or Bonetti's Defense but I do see your point.

I've been reading a lot of opinions from a lot of people (who appear to know more about PvP than most of us) and I've noticed a undying debate over the effectiveness of strength and if it's even worth throwing points at. Anyways, for your r/war build, are you implying that expertise is better than strength for a sword usage build? I suppose it makes perfect sense to use expertise to minimize energy usage but doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of building a high-damage output machine if you can't spike damage with armor pentration?

Morganas, I've tried using a heavy sword adrenaline build I just can't get over the fact that condition owns warriors so bad. I also feel that I'm not doing enough damage with my sword unless I go into my secondary.

The armor penetration of strength only applies to attack skills, not attacks, and a good deal of your damage can come from spending your energy using attack speed boosting stances like tiger's fury which strength does nothing for. Being able to keep those applied and still use your energy based attack skills is very useful. If damage spikes are more important to you than higher consistent damage, such as if you're in a warrior adrenaline spike team (I've never seen one), then strength might be better.

Besides, if strength were better than expertise, you'd probably see rangers taking warrior primary, as strength also effects bow attacks.

About your heavy sword build, even if you're pure warrior stat-wise, you should still use a monk or necro secondary for condition removal, for which you don't have to spend any stat points. Also, while a pure warrior doesn't match up to warrior who exploits his secondary for raw damage, you have the advantage of not being affected by enchant removal, nature's renewal, or domination mesmers (which still doesn't make up for the loss though IMO).

Nexx · Aug 18, 2005, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigris Of Gaul

Try that with a Zealous Sword. I really would advise using Strength of Honor over JI, but that gets you at no regen and I don't like that. Buffed axes and hammers benefit more from JI than swords, swords really do well with added damage.

Gotcha. =] I'll try things out with a zealous sword and see how it turns out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bast

A Zealous sword upgrade should be able to maintain those energy skills (Savage Slash, Bull's Strike, Sprint) without much problem. I messed around with a Warrior similar to that, but I ran Life Bond on the monk instead (same cost). I didn't have energy problems.

I'll also try dumping Insight and go with SoH. I dread the 1 energy pipe for a sword warrior but I suppose mad sword switching action is at hand. BTW, Life Bond looks cool to play around with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morganas

The armor penetration of strength only applies to attack skills, not attacks, and a good deal of your damage can come from spending your energy using attack speed boosting stances like tiger's fury which strength does nothing for. Being able to keep those applied and still use your energy based attack skills is very useful. If damage spikes are more important to you than higher consistent damage, such as if you're in a warrior adrenaline spike team (I've never seen one), then strength might be better.

I remembered reading awhile back and coming across an elite korean clan sporting heavy warrior builds that utilized adrenaline based spike attacks. Not exactly sure if it's possible but I think with secondary skills such as insight, it's very do-able. Also, I'm pretty sure strength (or rather the armor penetration bonus) also applies to regular attacks and skills.

I haven't had much experience with using expertise + warrior attack skills but I'll definitely look in it. With the recent surge in r/w + w/r threads, I'm sure there's merit in them. =]

Tuna · Aug 18, 2005, 10:49 PM // 22:49

First, you might have to drop your energy attack skills. Also, most fights don't last for long periods of time. Even if they do, other characters will lose their effectiveness far more than a warrior under those circumstances. A larger energy pool will help you go for longer. Equip gladiators in the proper places and bring a focus offhand (if there is one for smite, don't remember). Doing both of those will roughly double your mana supply. If you still have problems don't spam JI so much

Howling Wind · Aug 18, 2005, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Try making a build around warriors endurance, flourish or victory is mine for way of recovering energy.

If you think you hit alot then try using zealous as that will recharge you energy faster than that 1 pip you loose but if you focus your build around the above skills then you won't need zealous.

Tigris Of Gaul · Aug 18, 2005, 11:09 PM // 23:09

All in all, if you want to use Judge's Insight, go axe.
If you want to stick with Swords, go with Strength of Honor.